An article by Brendan Stone entitled: Zimbabwe's Different Path, and Penalty Incurred.was posted at http://frankblog.amagama.com/. The original article URL: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5730
The Reuters Image shows Movement for Democratic Change supporters. Mugabe's party achieved over 80% of voter support in an election which the MDC contested. The African Union, having observed the election, found it was free and fair. The MDC has since resorted to illegal means including violent protests. The MDC leadership has been accused of having approached Israeli intelligence and the CIA in a plot to assassinate the democratically elected president, Robert Mugabe.
This posting was done in the interests of African development, and to encourage a debate rather than generate an emotional response on the subject of Zimbabwe and Robert Mugabe's leadership. It is a very topical debate, in the light of the fact that Azania's president Mbeki has taken a leading role in trying to further improve the Zimbabwean economy and political situation. For a current situation analysis of Mbeki's role in the debate, readers are advised to visit this M&G to read an item entitled: "Mbeki angered by media fabrications on Zim, SADC"
In response to this posting, a person claiming to be Zimbabwean and apparently living now inside Azania (perhaps working for the western media pundits), attacked the article as a disgrace and useless in furthering the aims of freedom in Zimbabwe. I have invited comments from various MDC supporters to the article by Brendan Stone. An absence of any real reaction shows the current level of the debate among people claiming to be Zimbabwean supporters, and those South Africans who complain incessantly about President Mbeki's handling of Zimbabwe. The Azanian Pulse blog.
I have followed a few leads concerning K Chasu and found some interesting background information:
1. She or he is in fact one Rhodesian whose parents ran out of the country to escape the new regime. Only hard line supporters of Ian Smith's government did this, and many so called Europeans actually remained in Zimbabwe at the time, either choosing to support Ian Smith's regime or to back the rebels.
2. K Chasu grew up in the UK and now resides comfortably in the arms of the not so new South African regime. She leads an affluent life, benefiting from having been educated in the UK and being "of European descent" (both criteria are well valued in the very racist South African economy today).
My response to K Chasu's less than useful comments regarding Brendan Stone's article were as follows:
I'm not suggesting anything about murder or oppression, my friend, and neither is the author of this article. He merely points out that the government is taking measures much the same as any other government would. Being an Azanian and a resident of this planet as well, I agree with him. As the article points out, there are many causal factors at play, not exclusive to the role that so called journalists who do nothing less than support the forces who would have Zimbabwe returned to what they see as "it's rightful owners". Have you noticed how the media acts in relation to the Azanian regime and in relation to Zimbabwe? Also, have you noticed the deep rooted socio-economic problems that we face in Azania, and the repression that the protesting public also have to face when dealing with police? Are you aware of the repression faced by the community forces all over the country who have had the courage to try and combat organised crime? Perhaps you have missed the fact that Zimbabwe's judicial system is less controlled by the state, than our own in Azania? The MDC leader, had he been opposing South African government, a democratically elected one as the case in Zimbabwe, he would have bee silentlyI'm not suggesting anything about murder or oppression, my friend, and neither is the author of this article. He merely points out that the government is taking measures much the same as any other government would. Being an Azanian and a resident of this planet as well, I agree with him. As the article points out, there are many causal factors at play, not exclusive to the role that so called journalists who do nothing less than support the forces who would have Zimbabwe returned to what they see as "it's rightful owners". Have you noticed how the media acts in relation to the Azanian regime and in relation to Zimbabwe? Also, have you noticed the deep rooted socio-economic problems that we face in Azania, and the repression that the protesting public also have to face when dealing with police? Are you aware of the repression faced by the community forces all over the country who have had the courage to try and combat organised crime? Perhaps you have missed the fact that Zimbabwe's judicial system is less controlled by the state, than our own in Azania? The MDC leader, had he been calling for the end of the Azanian government, he would have been quietly flown out of Azania at worst, or incarcerated for many years inside the country, at best. In our situation, the violence is subtle. It is a systemic violence of economic hardships and also open repression which people tend to ignore due to the grip the media has on public opinion. Media spin doctors are hired to continue the terrible process of oppression.
K Chasu later visited another blog and made a similarly useless comment (failing to address any of the issues raised by Stone's article, and choosing to verbally abuse the poster of the article instead). Her comments and the response by the blogger are here: K Chasu "why don't you f-off"
My first Response:
From your comment, it seems that you are very emotional, as are many of the folks in the forum you suggested I visit. I am not interested in an emotional, one-sided "rhodesian" debate. Unless you also direct me to a forum comprising people who actually do see the government of Zimbabwe as acting to protect Zimbabwe's future, I am afraid that such a forum will prove nothing to many of us. Perhaps you will not have the courage to do that, nor will you have the means as you are so out of touch with the real situation.
If journalists are involved in terror campaigns with the MDC, I suspect they will face certain dangers, as they would do in any democratic country. Perhaps you should attack the article I have posted here, piece by piece, refuting the parts you disagree with by using rational arguments instead of joining the rhodesian crowd in vilifying Mugabe. Unless you do that, you will only be weakening your position. What is your position? It is not clear from your emotional rant.
As to people I love inside Zimbabwe, I have many people I love inside Zimbabwe. As an Azanian, I have many brothers and sisters in both countries. Please, if you are guest in Azania, please show some respect to the people we have elected to deal with these kinds of situations. At least give their arguments some thought. Explain please, your position in relation to our leaders' viewpoints. President Mbeki's latest letter to the public outlines a serious problem we are facing. It is the media monster which no doubt love people like yourselves, naive or otherwise, skilled in the art of spinning fiction into reality. You are our guest, and you can engage in such activities if you like, but for only so long as we start asking questions.
Please, what part of the article do you fail to understand or fail to agree with? You seem to think that the author loves oppression. It simply isn't the import of the article and it shows how easily you, my dear friend, can misread a position or a situation. Repression is deplorable, but even the governments applauded as "modern", engage in repression when their backs are against the wall. The people responsible for the situation in Zimbabwe, as terrible as it is, are yourselves and your allies in the west. The global research article makes the point clearly, that due to the unrelenting onslaught that Zimbabwe has faced because of it decisions to take a particular route after liberation, the political actors (some less sophisticated than others) have resorted to repression. Our violence in Azania is a hundred times worse than the violence seen in Zimbabwe. If you were unfortunate enough to live inside our poverty, you would know the levels of crime and hardships we face. Pray, tell us, where in Azania do you live? Sandton, or a squatter camp? flown out of Azania at worst, or incarcerated for many years inside the country, at best. In our situation, the violence is subtle. It is a systemic violence of economic hardships and also open repression which people tend to ignore due to the grip the media has on public opinion. Media spin doctors are hired to continue the terrible process of oppression.
From your comment, it seems that you are very emotional, as are many of the folks in the forum you suggested I visit. I am not interested in an emotional, one-sided "rhodesian" debate. Unless you also direct me to a forum comprising people who actually do see the government of Zimbabwe as acting to protect Zimbabwe's future, I am afraid that such a forum will prove nothing to many of us. Perhaps you will not have the courage to do that, nor will you have the means as you are so out of touch with the real situation.
If journalists are involved in terror campaigns with the MDC, I suspect they will face certain dangers, as they would do in any democratic country. Perhaps you should attack the article I have posted here, piece by piece, refuting the parts you disagree with by using rational arguments instead of joining the rhodesian crowd in vilifying Mugabe. Unless you do that, you will only be weakening your position. What is your position? It is not clear from your emotional rant.
As to people I love inside Zimbabwe, I have many people I love inside Zimbabwe. As an Azanian, I have many brothers and sisters in both countries. Please, if you are guest in Azania, please show some respect to the people we have elected to deal with these kinds of situations. At least give their arguments some thought. Explain please, your position in relation to our leaders' viewpoints. President Mbeki's latest letter to the public outlines a serious problem we are facing. It is the media monster which no doubt love people like yourselves, naive or otherwise, skilled in the art of spinning fiction into reality. You are our guest, and you can engage in such activities if you like, but for only so long as we start asking questions.
Please, what part of the article do you fail to understand or fail to agree with? You seem to think that the author loves oppression. It simply isn't the import of the article and it shows how easily you, my dear friend, can misread a position or a situation. Repression is deplorable, but even the governments applauded as "modern", engage in repression when their backs are against the wall. The people responsible for the situation in Zimbabwe, as terrible as it is, are yourselves and your allies in the west. The article makes the point clearly, that due to the unrelenting onslaught that Zimbabwe has faced because of it decisions to take a particular route after liberation, the political actors (some less sophisticated than others) have resorted to repression. Our violence in Azania is a hundred times worse than the violence seen in Zimbabwe. If you were unfortunate enough to live inside our poverty, you would know the levels of crime and hardships we face. Pray, tell us, where in Azania do you live? Sandton, or a squatter camp?
The debate continues at Azanian Pulse.
K Chasu's blog
25 comments:
I do not know what an "Azanian" is, but Zimbabwe has become a complete and utter disaster under Robert Mugabe. I love Africa, but Mugabe has got to go.
If the former white leader, Ian Smith, is so reviled, then why do Zimbabweans, mainly black people, rush to shake his hand whenever he appears in Harare? They knew when they had it good.
Mugabe has proven what he always was, a mass murdering bastard puppet of the North Koreans and the Lybians, who only ever wanted to be king of his own little Shona dominated Marxist empire. Now half the country is starving and the other half is dying from Aids. Inflation is 6,000% and there are now almost four million Zimbabweans living in exile, far more than during the Rhodesian bush war. The country had been completely destroyed by a power hungry tyrant who will surely reap what he has sown.
You voted for him - you got him.
Enjoy!
William J. Gibbons
Thank you for sharing your opinion, Mr. Gibbons. We are all entitled to hold one of those. And we can still express any opinion inside Zimbabwe.
What is your opinion regarding the Tshwane regime of today? Critics of Zimbabwe will often praise Tswane's office bearers when their political and economic programme is juxtaposed with Harare in an international forum, while the same folks criticize ad nausiuum, Tshwane domestically.
In any case, even if what you say is true, that Zimbabwe's economic woes are Mugabe's fault alone; and if your claim to be a supporter of democracy were true, pray tell us, why you do not clearly reject the UNDEMOCRATIC attempts at unseating Mugabe's regime seeing as his party achieved over 80% of a free and fair vote? You allude to having some measure of respect for those that voted Mugabe into power, yet you do not follow that through to this logical conclusion.
I have no doubt Ian Smith gets the support from his faithful followers, the same who support the Mossad Delivered Coup (MDC). Of course, you fail to mention the even larger crowds that support Mugabe in Harare AND anywhere else in Africa. Something Ian Smith will always fail to notch up in his belt. Even the MDC will try to distance themselves from that dirty racist tyrant internationally. As to the "Azanian" slight, your ignorance is displayed not only by your opinions, but also your knowledge about the Africa you claim to love so much. If you really love Africa, I'd suggest you try to keep an open mind and respond to issues raised instead of glossing over the parts you know nothing about, and sticking with the parts you feel most comfortable with. I guess the old saying is true, "ignorance is bliss".
Hello Yahya,
Oh My, hit a nerve did I? Tshwane? What a dumb name. Don't you mean Pretoria? You asked for my opinion. They are yet another bunch of Marxist nobodies that took over a thriving and wealthy country built out of rock and bush by white pioneers.
Mugabe has never won a fair election. Never. In 1980 when other so called "freedom fighters" were in the assembly camps, Mugabe's "boys" were roaming the countryside threatening to cut the throats of any Shona and N'Bele who did not vote for "Comrade" Mugabe. And since then, he has stayed in power by murder, extortion and genocide (the Matabeland massacres of 1981 and 1983). He killed more blacks during those two episodes than were killed during the entire Rhodesian bush war. of course, true to his nature, Mugabe recently destroys homes and businesses in Harare, effectively rendering 700,000 people homeless for having the audacity to vote for the opposition. You talk about logic. Where is the logic in this man's lust for absolute power and the means by which he has resorted to hold on to it?
I can go on about the savagery shown by black Marxists towards those they were supposedly out to liberate, but you wouldn't really be interested, would you?
I repeat, Mugabe is a mass murdering bastard puppet of the North Koreans and the Lybians. I don't care how many degrees he has after his name, he seized power in 1980 and destroyed the second biggest economy in Africa. If you think that 12,000% inflation, four million starving Zimbabweans, another four million living in exile, no food, no petrol, no electricity, no medical supplies in near empty hospitals, no freedom of the press, and detention camps all over the country is "progress", then I feel sorry for you. Things were considerably better under Ian Smith, and I have met enough black Zimbabweans living here in Canada as refugees who have stated as much.
As for the white farmers, those so called "colonials" were born in Africa, and 83% of those white farms were purchased from Mugabe. All he is doing is stealing what he sold to others. But then again, he was nothing but a thief and a murderer anyway. And who got the land/ Most of Uncle Bob's cronies who don't know the slightest thing about farming.
Just look at the number of Zimbabweans that have fled for neighbouring African states, and those who have left Africa completely. At least the governments of Mozambique, Zambia and even Nigeria have had the good sense to invite white Zimbabwean farmers to develop their agricultural sectors. The end result has been astonishingly successful. Now, Uncle Bob wants them back. Not a chance.
The ANC don't care either. Jo'burg has the highest murder rate in the world, with a rape happening every 23 seconds. Crime is completely out of control and many of the best educated and wealthiest people are leaving in their droves. Not all of them are white either. Over 1,700 Boer farmers have been murdered in South Africa since 1997. Do you think Thabo M'Beki really cares about the white Africans? He is Mugabe's little brother. Marxists are now in control of Namibia and South Africa. They will eventually destroy southern Africa with their disasterous socialist policies and one-party state mentality. The entire continent will eventually become a disaster area. And who will suffer? The African people themselves at the hands of their "liberators." Africa's liberators of today become the dictators of tomorrow.
It is a sad thing when the president of Gabon tried to bequeath his country back to France as an African province, rather than an independent state. A friend of mine recently returned from the DR Congo (he is Congolese). There was a rumour going around that the Belgians (who were the absolute worst of the colonial powers) had returned to rule and were on the same boat he was. When the boat landed at Kisangani, the mayor and town officials who turned out were utterly dejected to find that there were no Belgians onboard.
I have many, many friends in Africa and travel there as often as I can. I even have several African employees. There are enough young and well educated Africans who desire only the very best for their continent. I hope they succeed and lead Africa into a prosperous and secure future for all Africans, regardless of their skin colour.
Ignorance may be bliss to some, but I have taken the trouble to actually go to Africa and travel around the continent, getting to know the people. Or do you condemn me as "ignorant" because I am white and do not share your views?
William J. Gibbons
Calgary, Alberta
Interesting comments. I stopped reading somewhere in the first paragraph. I'll pick it up when i have lined mys stomach with something. Maybe some Biggot Mac Burger <;-)>. thanks for stopping by Mr Gibbons.
Hello Yahya,
Have you lined your stomach yet with that McBigot Burger? Try some Mugabe munchies for desert and wash it down with an (Ian) Smith Shake. Though I warn you, the Mugabe Munchies might be hard to find anywhere in Zim, considering that all the shops are empty and most people are eating rats. But wait! If you have a ZANU-PF
membership card, then you can apply for food aid!The four million Zimbabweans living in exile are the lucky ones.
It's truly amazing isn't it, when Mugabe murder's his way towards total anarchy and totalitarianism, he gets an "80% approval rating." I suggest that this has far more to do with the anti-western sentiments of the dictators and autocrats that make up the African Union, rather than the disaster that Zimbabwe has become under Uncle Bob. But then again, the fact that he put his army in charge of running (or rigging) the "election" says it all. Anyone voting for the opposition were beaten, run out of town, arrested and detained during the election itself, or made to wait for hours on end until the army decided to let them vote (in greatly reduced numbers. The African Union are more than happy to support Uncle Bob. After all, who needs those wicked whites who built their contries for them when they can tear everything down through socilaized "Africanization?"
Mind you, Africa has managed to produce some VERY colourful characters. Such lovable rogues like Mobuto, Arap-Moi, Amin, Bossaka and of course, our old favourite, Uncle Bob. they robbed their own people blind and murdered more Africans during their combined rule than the colonial powers ever did. But Mugabe DID achieve something. He only took 25 years to destroy the second biggest economy in Africa - the same well developed and sophisticated ecomomy that the white pioneers built out of bush and rock.
Tell you what, let's put this all into perspective and compare Zimbabwe and Rhodesia from 1977 to 2007 shall we?
Rhodesia: Dollar = $3 US
Zimbabwe: Dollar = 1/50th US cent
Rhodesia: Life expectancy (male) 57
Zimbabwe: life expectancy (male) 37
Rhodesia: Inflation - 3%
Zimbabwe: Inflation - 6,000%
Rhodesia: Food Production: Enough to feed the country AND export.
Zimbabwe: Food production: 6% of national requirements: food now imported.
Rhodesian War: 500,000 living in exile
Zimbabwe: 4 million living in exile
yes, Zimbabwe is thriving isn't it? And the best is yet to come! Namibia and South Africa are now planning the same kibnd of land grab that Mugabe initiated in order to destroy his economy. They will become new Zimbabwe's with 15 years.
the white man builds. The African destroys.
William J. Gibbons
Calgary, Alberta
"well developed and sophisticated ecomomy that the white pioneers built out of bush and rock" (W.J. Gibbons, 2007).
It sounds like the same argument the zionists make about the occupation of palestine. Thanks Mr. Gibbons for once again helping us to join the dots between your support for colonialism, aparthied and zionism.
Greeting Again Yahya,
To answer your brief rebuttal, I DO NOT and never have supported aparthied. Just ask my non-white relatives in Cape Town. My wife is from Mauritius. She is not white and we have two mixed race children between us. So don't accuse me of supporting a racist regime. But then again, I am white, so that's all you need to know in order to throw insults at me. As for the "Rainbow Nation," South Africa will become the new Zimbabwe in 15 years from now. Your communist heroes in the ANC will see to it.
My comparison between Smith and Mugabe is for one reason only. To distinguish between an efficiently run, wealthy country, and a nightmare basket case run by a tyrant. Smith was not perfect, but he was not corrupt either. He never told blacks that he loved them, then starved them.
You simply would not believe the number of black Zimbabweans I have met who openly talk about how much better life was under the whites.
Funny isn't it, that huge numbers of black Africans are emigrating to White countries, and with no desire to return to the hell holes they came from? Doesn't say much for those "liberation heroes" that took over from the whites, does it?
As for Israel, it still remains the only true democracy in the Middle East. Unless of course, your sympathies lie with those poor, misunderstood terrorists who fire 500 rockets a day into Israel from Lebanon, then hide among civilians who are used as shields?
Just where do your sympathies really lie? Who are YOUR heroes, Yahya?
William J. Gibbons
Calgary, Alberta
Mr. Gibbons, your use of racial terms ; your narrow and biased understanding of world affairs; and your firm allegiance to zionism (a political ideology that Mr. Hendrick Verwoerd supported, by the way) are all signs that you ARE a bigot. In your use of racial terms, it is clear that you are trapped so much by this racial ideology of white supremacy that you fail to acknowledge like all of us, that the very notion of "race" is false. Racial difference is a subjective reality to only people like yourself. Your racial references to your wife and children are even more proof of the sad bondage you suffer from. It is my guess, an Azanian myself, that your wife suffers from the same effects of apartheid ideology that you suffer from. I am fully appraised about folks who refuse to acknowledge African ancestory, claiming instead, ONLY their European blood, and explaining their brown pigmentation as the result of some "other" family history. People such as yourself (for whom and by whom) the false "multi-racial" or "power-sharing. rainbow-nation" have been invented, live in fear and self-hatred. Your views continue to be affected by fear and mistrust from a perceived "other". It is a "laager" mentality that we can do without in this world.
Sir, Palestine and Azania will one day be free. As to the economic and political hardships that a nation has to suffer when it claims independence from the chains of slavery, these we look forward to. Zimbabwe's political turmoil is the end result of years of outside meddling with internal tribal and class issues. The fundamental victory that is clear and visible to all (except people of your ilk, a minority), is that Zimbabweans stand firm in their support of their leaders. Your rationalisation as to why this support exists: "Zimbabweans are ignorant". They are also (in your view) "black". Nice one. Every comment of yours serves to show any half-objective reader, just how flawed your starting biased point and how tainted with racism your arguments remain. You have done well for the cause of African freedom, sir.
Please write again soon.
Hello Again Yahya,
I am simply unable to fathom your reasoning.
If I were the racist you claim, then my spouse would have blonde hair and blue eyes, not olive skin and brown eyes. Our children are indeed handsome and I am immensely proud of them.
You do have a point about race, however. In truth, there are no "races" as such. There is only 1/10,000th% difference between you and I. We are far closer, genetically speaking, than you think.
White supremist? I have absolutely no time for them - or black supremists either. They are both dangerous and destructive. Do you know what its like to be called a "nigger lover?" I have met blacks who are better educated than me and make more money than me. But you obviously ignored some of my previous comments about my desire to see educated and intelligent young Africans, who will hopefully one day have an opportunity to advance their continent towards, peace, stability and prosperity for all.
Facts are facts. Ian Smith ran a prosperous country, and Mugabe tore it down. The ANC is heading in the same direction. Plus, Mugabe has murdered more people in Zimbabwe than Smith ever did.
Why is there four million Zimbabweans living in exile, Yahya?
What exactly do you mean by Freedom for Azania? Don't you have a majority rule government?
What merits do you admire in Mugabe?
Why does Israel not have the right to exist?
Do you honestly believe that Hezbullah and Islamic Jihad had the best interests of the palistinian people at heart?
Look forward to hearing from you.
William J. Gibbons
Azania is occupied by the racist nationalists who signed agreements with zionist led western governments in 1993.
Of course Hezbollah are the legitimate resistance in Lebanon. And Hamas is the elected government in The Palestinian areas. They of course represent the interests of their supporters, a substantial majority i might add. Islamic Jihad enjoys less support, but have every right to resist the illegal occupation. Of course some will not agree with the means that communities resist their enemies, but that is the nature of history. You support a terrorist state like israel, i see that people have a right to resist an occupation of their land.
Israel has systematically sought to cleanse the areas around Jerusalem of, so as to establish the state of israel. Why on earth would anyone claim any state like this has a right to exist? Oh, wait, you felt that Ian Smith's regime had a right to exist along with Verwoerd's Apartheid regime. Small wonder you also support the genocidal terrorists in Jerusalem, as Verwoerd was also a zionist supporter. there are many links here and at my other blog, that describe in detail, the terror that israel wages on the people of the region.
Hello Yahya,
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately you did not reply to my questions about your thoughts on Mugabe, or why almost one third of Zimbabweans are living in exile.
Anyway, to answer your response on Palestine and Israel; lets look at a few facts shall we?
The word "Palestine" itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The name began to be used in the Thirteenth Century BCE, for a wave of migrant "Sea Peoples" who came from the area of the Aegean Sea and the Greek Islands and settled on the southern coast of the land of Canaan. There they established five independent city-states (including Gaza) on a narrow strip of land known as Philistia. The Greeks and Romans called it "Palastina".
The Philistines were not Arabs, they were not Semites. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina" derived from the Peleshet.
By 1948, the Arabs had still not yet discovered their ancient nation of Falastin. When they were offered half of Palestine west of the Jordan River for a state, the offer was violently rejected. Six Arab states launched a war of annihilation against the nascent State of Israel. Their purpose was not to establish an independent Falastin. Their aim was to partition western Palestine amongst themselves.
They did not succeed in killing Israel, but Trans-Jordan succeeded in taking Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and East Jerusalem, killing or driving out all the Jews who had lived in those places, and banning Jews of all nations from Jewish holy places. Egypt succeeded in taking the Gaza Strip. These two Arab states held these lands until 1967. Then they launched another war of annihilation against Israel, and in consequence lost the lands they had taken by war in 1948.
During those 19 years, 1948-1967, Jordan and Egypt never offered to surrendar those lands to make up an independent state of Falastin. The "Palestinians" never sought it. Nobody in the world ever suggested it, much less demanded it.
Finally, in 1964, the Palestine Liberation Movement was founded. Ahmed Shukairy, who less than 10 years earlier had denied the existence of Palestine, was its first chairman. Its charter proclaimed its sole purpose to be the destruction of Israel. To that end it helped to precipitate the Arab attack on Israel in 1967.
The outcome of that attack then inspired an alteration in public rhetoric. As propaganda, it sounds better to speak of the liberation of Falastin than of the destruction of Israel. Much of the world, governments and media and public opinion, accept virtually without question of serious analysis the new-sprung myth of an Arab nation of Falastin, whose territory is unlawfully occupied by the Jews.
Since the end of World War I, the Arabs of the Middle East and North Africa have been given independent states in 99.5 percent of the land they claimed. Lord Balfour once expressed his hope that when the Arabs had been given so much, they would "not begrudge" the Jews the "little notch" promised to them.
Israel, the only true democracy in the Middle East, is surrounded by 22 Muslim/Arab states, none of then need land from the Jews. Their demands for land merely mask the irrational hatred they harbour for Israel, nothing more.
As for Ian Smith, the facts remain; He governed a wealthy and prosperous nation where even black African prospered. Mugabe the mass murderer has utterly destroyed his own nation and even called the white Africans "enemies of the state." The only enemy of Zimbabwe and its people is Mugabe himself. And he is "typical' of Africas "liberation heroes?" No wonder tems of thousands of Africans are migrating to Europe, Canada, the USA and Australia. They can't wait to get out of the hell hole that Africa has become under its own "leaders" and live in the countries run by their "colonial oppressors".
If you truly believe that "freedom from the chains of colonialism" is worth economic destruction, civil war,disease, tribal genocide and permanently living off foreign aid, then you are welcome to your lot, sir.
William J. Gibbons
I think apart from being racist, you are also deranged. Your comments become more amusing as time goes by. Deeply entertaining.
Greetings Yahya,
Running out of intelligent things to say? Calling me a "racist" and "deranged" only reveals your own one-sided and blatantly predujiced views. But then again, your adoration for Mugabe reveals your own questionable mental health.
The facts speak very clearly for themselves. Mugabe has completely destroyed the second biggest economy in Africa, driven four million Zimbabweans into exile, made another one million Zimbabweans homeless, and brought a nation to its knees through enforced starvation. Isn't black majority rule wonderful? If you think that my comments (based on FACTS)are "deeply etertaining" then you are as deranged as Mugabe.
Now that Ian Smith (God Bless him) has gone to be with the Lord, Mugabe's time is running out. The demons are leaping for joy, waiting for their chances to drag your deranged hero into the unspeakable pit awaiting him.
If you honestly believe that the madness that prevails in Zimbabwe today, including the steady slide into anarchy that South Africa is now facing, is "progress' then you are a very sad and deluded individual.
I feel nothing but pity for you.
Now, if you don't mind, I have a church to build in Cameroon.
Bill Gibbons
The fact that you cannot reply to my comments without mindless name calling only reveals your own bigoted views.
Zimabwe is finished, South Africa is going down the tiolet and half the continent is dying from Aids. You can continue to deny the facts, but your ignorance of African and Middle Eastern history is quite simply appalling. Your own hatred of the white Africans who built your continent, and the Jews who have to fight constantly for their own survival, is astounding.
But then again, I am too busy helping my fellow man. So, if you don't mind, i have a church to build in Cameroon.
Best Wishes,
Bill Gibbons
Only God can help your congregation. It seems you live in a narrow fantasy world where white is right. The ills in Africa and the Middle east are due to the great racists like yourselves. There are obvious problems in Africa, but the root of these problems is European colonialism and neo-colonialism. No, I am not grateful for the violent rape of our beloved continent by barbaric Europeans, led by so called religious missionaries like yourself. The only mission you and your type have is self serving. Never before have I encountered one who is so racist as yourself. You have the lowest view of humanity and you place yourself above humanity.
Thank you for the exchange which I am certain, will help the next person get an insight into the mind of a bigot.
It is clear that Mr. Gibbons is most definately an entity separate from reality. On the one hand he maintains that Europe has contributed much to Africa, having civilised us. He forgets that it was Africa that was civilised eons before Europe crawled out of the Dark Ages. If it weren't for European plagues, political and social discord and disasterous economic models, then Africa would not have been exposed to the barbaric invasions which saw only death and destruction visited on Africans. It is amusing how on the one hand he praises Europe and degrades Africa for what he sees as her failures, while at the same time saying that Africa has been civilised at all.
Sir, it is a truth that Africa will rise from her ashes. Her re-birth will be IN SPITE of Europe, and not BECAUSE of Europe.
Interstingly, the latest meeting in Lisbon was hijacked by undemocratic forces. It was used by Europe to target Mugabe. Largely a photo shoot anyway, because so called "free trade between equals" is being sold to moany of Africa's people through Europe's allies black nationalists), the Lisbon affair was a useless effort from the start. The real deals are being made in board rooms on a weekly basis. The sad part is that Africans are supposed to compete as equals, yet even Koreans organised themselves in opposition to Free Trade Agreements recenbtly. Korea is a strong first world economy, and her people see that FT agreemenst are unfair when Europe and America continue to reap unfair benefits by using military threats and economic protectionism. How can Africa compete as an equal when she is still used by local nationalists.
Africa needs political maturity, but first she must have military conflict. I am no war monger, but when Africans stand up, then the barbaric western powers will wage war as they have done in East Africa, either by proxy (war partners), or by blatant invasions.
Their illegal attacks and sanctions on Zimbabwe are testimony to this kind of policy. Why has Mbeki been put in charge of talks, yet the issue is raised repeatedly. No one can answer this question, except bvy saying that Africa is not seen as an equal. It is only in economic trade affairs that we are supposed to act as equals.
http://www.voanews.com/english/Africa/Zimbabwe/2007-12-09-voa20.cfm
Your comments become more absurd by the day.
Africa is the only continent in the world going backwards - not forwards! Most African states have had their independence since the 1960's, when are your own problems going to be your own fault? isn't almost a half century enough to get your own house in order?
Africa was developed when Europe was in the Dark Ages? Give me a break. Half the continent was still eating each other when the white man arrived. Living in mud huts, hunting with spears and practising tribal genocide is not my idea of an "advanced" society. Funny how all the sciences were established by white people - unless all that knowledge was stolen from Africans by wicked colonialists. I have seen the sort of "Afro-centric" education foisted upon young minds here in North America. It is rubbish, and bad rubbish at that. All archeological evidence points to the Middle East as the cradle of civilisation - not Africa.
South Korea is an economic powerhouse for one reason: Asians are smart. In spite of having been divided by a war that threatened a communist take-over, South Korea has prospered while its Marxist neighbour suffers becuase of its insular, backward Marxist policies, a bit like Zimbabwe, don't you think?
The relatively few African success stories, such as Ivory Coast and Botswana, are the result of forward thinking African leaders. The rest of the gang have been nothing but a bunch of deranged megalomaniacs like Arap-Moi, Amin, Bosaka, Mobuto Seko-Seso,and of course my old pal, Robert Gabriel Mugabe. South Africa is going down hill so fast it will be another Zimbabwe in 10 or 15 years. Then all of southern African will be a nightmare to live in. Nay, the entire continent will be finished.
Yet Africa is incredibly rich in natural resources. I am sure that Africa's leaders are intelligent enough to be able to negotiate better trade deals with the rest of the world without having to go through the EU or the UN. Just think what all that money could to to build and restructure the continent. But then again, all that money in the hands of some deranged African despot will go into his Swiss bank account or towards another presidential palace with gold plated bathroon fixtures, while the people continue to suffer.
So, Africa needs war? Isn't 15 million dead African at the hands of their own leaders enough? You want a war with Europe? We could blast Africa into eternity with less than 12 nuclear warheads. Why waste a single soldier when we have the technology to liquidate you much faster?
However, war with Africa is simply not necessary. Aids, disease, hunger, civil war, tribal genocide and abject poverty will kill of enough Africans within the next 25 years to avert any kind of military action. Those who are left will welcome the white man back with open arms.
But, in all honestly, Africa can succeed, it just needs to get rid of the Mugabe's
and the Mbeki's of the continent. But, we'll see.
As far as "my" congregation is concerned, they belong to an African church, not a missionary church. I merely raise the funds for them to build whatever they need. A church, a school, a clinic. Nor am I am I a missionary, just a fund raiser to help my African friends. I was baptised in the Oubangui River at the hand of a Congolese pastor, and my wife is from Mauritius, so you can shove your accusations of "racism" where it hurts.
You are the real racist here. Are you a Muslim by chance? Calling others "barbarians" and "racists" only reveals your own insular bigotry. Funny isn't it, when thousands of Africans are fleeing the continent to live in Europe and North America, where the "barbaric" whites live.
I am sure I didn't say that Africa NEEDS war. What is true is that whenever Africans advance, war will be waged on her people. This is what I mean. Open conflict is a given and we should be happy when that happens because it will mean that we are doing something to upset those who wish to abuse our resources. You are truly a bigot. Your comments bear ample testimony to that. The Gospel you teach has to be a twisted series of lies, as your knowledge and general perception amount to a kind of delusion of the grandest kind. Truly deranged. Please read a history of Africa by Africans, not the liars that you claim are Africa's saviours. Your image of Africa is plagued by lies about our history as too is your perception of Middle-east reality. I am sure you believe that Palestine was occupied by no-one when the British handed the land to the Nazi loving zionists?
for those readers stumbling on these comments, you may find this interesting material to enlighten you at these links --
http://www.nbufront.org/html/MastersMuseums/JHClarke/Contemporaries/CheikhAntaDiop.html -- http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/mali/ -- http://www.digitalbookindex.org/_search/search010hstafricant.asp -- Africans are not the continent going backwards, but the continent KEPT backward by powerhouses bent on fostering the racist ideologies of people like Mr. Gibbons and co. Botswana is run by politicians who have no regard for human rights. I am glad you mention this state as a symbol of the kind of success you imagine awaits us all.
I no bigot for calling a barbarian by its name. I am not the first bright spark to use this apt word to refer to the imperialists. I am happy to call myself one of many people who have done so, J.M. Coetzee (An African author) being one of the many who have used this word. It is amusing how someone who implies that "Asians" (in his mind, a "race of people") are inherently smarter than Africans. Funny that North Asians are not as smart (as he insinuates in his next line). Your statements Mr. Gibbons, are not even valid arguments. While mine do not even pretend to be arguments. I am merely giving a series of opinions, and enjoying watching a poor bankrupt soul tangle itself in its web of lies, desperate to find a way to twist reality to conform to his years of bigoted speech. Frantic in the highest degree.
Yahya, you did not answer my question....are you a Muslim?
Furthermore, I do not preach, I support African pastors in Africa churches and help them in any way they request.
What have you to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
Once again, if whites are so wicked, why are Africans flocking to live in Europe and North America - countries run by whites no less?
"What have I to do with the Gospel of Jesus?" Just a second then.. do you have some rights over Jesus that others do not have? Humour me, kindly. It makes sense that you are not a learned preacher and a builder of structures. If you are a builder, why not build mosques as well? May I remind you of Jesus' teachings (with respect to Jesus and acknowledging my limited knowledge into such things).. did he not teach that when you serve God, you should never stand on mountain top and proclaim it, so that your Father in heaven alone rewards you. Isn't it better to keep such things out of a forum like this instead of saying you must leave to "build a church"? Should we seek the rewards or recognition of mankind for any good deeds? If we do that, are these deeds truly for God or are they for some other mortal objective?
Sir, there is no white and black in this world. Get that into your your little mind. There are greedy and non-believing people, and then there are those with integrity and who will rule with justice over their house and their community. Would you not flee poverty and try to live under slightly better circumstances? Also, if your so called whites civilised Africa, pray tell me, why is it in such a mess? Oh, I see, because we messed it up after you left. Give me a break please. The truth is, economics has never really changed in Africa since the colonial powers gave over political power to local nationalists. The land is still very much controlled by an elite, in service of an elite.
Hello Yahya,
So there is no black and white in this world? You could have fooled me. Africa is populated with pink and green people, right?
Why am I building a church? I'm not actually building a church as such, I am merely providing what funding I can raise for my African brethren. Where are the so-called "African Americans" who should be helping? Hopefully we will be able to raise money for a school and perhaps a clinic.
Since my baptism in the Oubangui River at the hand of a Congolese pastor, I have desired to do whatever I can to help my African brethren in building churches, schools,and perhaps even clinics to help those who live too far from the towns and cities, and who do not possess the means or the money to seek the help and treatment they need.
I am hoping to have a substantial investment portfolio set up to provide the funding that my African friends need. What do I get out of it? The satisfaction of knowing I helped people that Bono and Oprah Winfrey ignored. I will not be happy until I see schools, clinics and churches in Congo, Gabon, Cameroon and beyond run by Africans and helping Africans.
Not bad for a deranged white racist, eh?
Indeed. It confirms what I always hold as truth, that there is good in all people.
I suspect you harbour exceeding disdain for all that is horrid in this world, as I do. It is my view that your anger is misdirected, because you accept without enough consideration, the narrow racist world view of (excuse the pun here) "black and white", in this world. The enemies of truth will have us all flounder in confusion in this way, only to continue to hold on to the reigns of power and control.
I withdraw my judgments of you, but only in part. In particular, my last comment about you standing on a mountain top, because, though you did so, it was in response to my accusations leveled at you. I am sure that what you do does lead to a lot of good. I don't think either you or I are qualified to preach extensively with authority, nor are either of us capable nor should anyone be, of tearing down the others' faith.
I reverted from Catholicism, in 2000. Though I recognise all the prophets until the Holy Prophet Mohamed, I am not a practicing Muslim. I recognise that religion is abused by greedy and powerful people to control humanity by division.
Sir, your racial world view will strangle any good that you try to do. I advise you to rectify this misperception you have about humanity. Race is a social and political construct and not a scientific and objective reality. It exists only in the minds of those who view the world in this way. I regard you as an agnostic because you disregard the importance of knowledge in the salvation of mankind. But that is MY perception of you. You do not 9I am sure) accept that label. Neither do I accept the label of coloured or black. I am as African as J.M. Coetzee is African, regardless of what Mbeki or Mugabe say about that. In SOUTH AFRICA, I am a coloured. In AZANIA I am an African. It is a state of mind, more than it is a location in space. Hence, I have left South Africa and I will only return, Insha'allah, when there is a worthy cause to be fought (either by non-violence or by violence as I predict). To live in a state of mental imprisonment is not a way for me to live and I wish to raise my girls in a better place than that. A place they will not be called coloured. I invite you to read my other blogs, as this one is left untended. You can find it by seeing the widget at the top of any page on this blog. You can also find me at my facebook. I look forward to further respectful dialogue.
Hello Yahya,
Is there good in everyone? Yes, I suppose there is if you look hard enough. I have no doubt that P.W. Botha and even Robert Mugabe have some good in their hearts, even Ian Smith wasn't all bad.
I am not angry as you might have thought (perhaps I have given you a wrong impression), but I AM concerned about the needless suffering of my fellow man. I am sure there is no need to explain to you about the need to equip Africans to help Africans. I help when I am asked. The plan to build churches and schools in Africa is not mine, but the Holy Spirit directs where He knows I can be of some good.
I do not preach as such, but I do teach in a Bible college (a science course, examining the creation - evolution question). I leave spiritual leadership to those who have been given that gift.
Biologically, there is very little difference between us: There is only a mere 1/10,000th percent difference in our genetic make up - thats it. I even wrote a Biblically based paper on the subject which is still available.
I would agree with you about the "races" being a superficial and narrow minded perception. Indeed, we all came from the same original parents (they were not apes!) I generally take people as they come, good or bad. However, I have little time or patience with the extremists, such as the black nationalists who shout about killing all the whites, or nazi skinheads with swastikas tattoed all over them!
Bill Gibbons
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